This installment of Married Geek Couple is in great part about things we grew up with, one way or another…
Barb: You and I share a love of children’s literature. How did you get into the “Great Brain” books?
Park: I think the Great Brain books were something I discovered on a shelf in a classroom. Maybe third grade? Or… Maybe another Reading Is Fundamental giveaway.
Barb: One of my fave jokes from The Simpsons mentions that Lisa reads The Great Brain books. One of us! One of us! We accept you! One of us!
Barb: Next question: How’d you get into The Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Park: My high school friends liked the Rocky Horror Picture Show. In preparation, I went to a store that sold music and bought a cassette tape of Sal and his friends doing the Par-Tic-I-Pa-Tion… liturgy.
Barb: You were going to be a marine biologist as a child. Why’d you switch to an English Major?
Park: I switched from trying to be a marine biologist when I nearly failed Honors Biology yet passed English 2101 like a cool breeze.
Barb: What is the best Vertigo comic, in your opinion?
Park: Wow, best Vertigo comic. BEST Vertigo comic. Wow. Um… I’m gonna say early Hellblazer, I think.
Barb: There are many, many comic book movies out there. Which do you think is the best and why?
Park: Best Comic Book Movie. Yikes. Wow. I’m gonna say Thor: Ragnarok.
Barb: I’ve totally, completely forgotten, until now, to ask you about your experience as a gamer. When did you get into D&D?
Park: Friend Nathan in 6th grade was into D&D, and he was in the gifted program, and so was I.
Barb: You usually played a cleric, if I remember correctly. Did you ever try any other type of character, like a bard or a thief? Also– it’s no secret that your character alignment in real life is pretty lawful good. Did you ever try any other character alignments when you were gaming?
Park: I wasn’t really into PLAYING D&D. It was hard for any of us teen boys to sit still and focus for that long, anyway. (Well, them, anyway.) In any event, I was more attracted to the world-building and character-building aspects of it… and the Marvel ‘80s RPG, too.
Barb: Did you ever think of being a GM when you were gaming?
Park: Yes, I did think about being a GM. I tried GMing a bit– but, again, the sitting-still-and-focusing thing was a problem (for whomever I was talking to, anyway), so it was usually a one-on-one storytelling session with one friend where they said what they wanted to do (usually just be a badass) and I told them what happened. I don’t think dice were ever rolled.
Barb: Now, you have an actual game or two out there that you’ve created. Tell me where a person can get those games, what they’re called, and what they’re about.
Park: Those games are on the website itch.io . The first is called MEMOS AND MONSTERS– it’s about a typical fantasy world where the good guys and the bad guy cast a Wish spell at the same time wishing reality was different, and they accidentally make their world into a (fantasy) office comedy (where monsters work).
Park: The second one is called MULTICLASS: THE RPG SYSTEM! and it’s not so much a World one adventures in as just rules for running adventures that’s designed to facilitate adventurers who aren’t just one kind of thing. They can be sword-slinging magical thieves who can heal people if they want.
Park: They’re free– one just downloads them.
Barb: Now, being a Texan, you’re a big Robert E. Howard fan. How’d you get into Bob’s work?
Park: Ah, Robert E. Howard. My friends in school– not JUST Nathan– read Conan… I tried it… I wasn’t ready. I got into Bob’s Solomon Kane character first… which eventually led to me trying Bob’s other stories… and, finally, Conan.
Park: See, part of the problem was that OTHER people were authorized to write Conan novels later… NOT as well-written in my opinion.
Park: I think I picked those up at first… and then put them down again.
Park: It was all just a matter of what paperbacks my friends brought to lunch.
Park: Of course it helped that there were not only movies of Conan but COMICS of Conan…
Barb: You pushed me into reading Robert E. Howard, and I’m so glad you did. That man’s writing style is a volcano. There’s so much passion in every word.
Barb: You’re also a big John Carter of Mars fan. How’d you get into those books?
Park: Nathan, again, had the John Carter of Mars books, or at least the first three (everyone’s favorites).
Barb: I also remember that you were a fan of the “Stainless Steel Rat” books. How’d that come about?
Park: Nathan, again, had The Stainless Steel Rat, from the “buy anything you want” book-buying policies of his mother. He’d bring a paperback to lunch at school, then he’d get involved in talking to friends instead, and I’d try reading whatever he had on ‘im.
Barb: Now, we are both BIG Hitchhiker’s Guide fans. I picked that book out on the whim.
How’d you get into it?
Park: Hitchhiker’s was MY find, I think? I could be wrong? I seem to recall picking it up in Waldenbooks and thinking “this… planet…? is making a funny face at me. This looks like funny sci-fi. I like both of those things. Sounds cute. Let’s glance inside.” (30 seconds later) “Okay, this is cute.”
Barb: Your high school friend, Nathan, got you into a lot of movies, too.
Park: Well, he had cable, and I didn’t.
Barb: Oh, that’s right. One of the few advantages I had as a teen that you didn’t was a great cable service. I spent my teen years reading, watching old movies, and listening to music.
Park: Ah, well, as soon as we had a video rental store in bike-able distance, I took advantage of that. Summers, especially.
Park: Dallas radio was NOT particularly mind-expanding, although I did pick up an okay foundation of classics.
Barb: I was happy to give you a musical education. I remember you telling me you couldn’t get into the Velvet Underground because you had only heard “White Light/White Heat”, so I gave you a personal playlist I called “Nice Light/Nice Heat” with all of the gentler songs on it. And you just loved it!
Park: See… at that time I was more closed-minded about associating sounds with genres. Wrongly-so, although those associations had served me well up until I met you. Certain types of fuss just said “metal” to me, and I knew that wasn’t what I wanted. But the V.U. was doing… other, different things.
Park: *FUZZ, not fuss, sorry. Will fix in editing.
Barb: I like “certain types of fuss,” frankly.
Park: I know, right? There’s not a name for “typos that still fit the sentence anyway” but there should be.
Barb: LOL.
Park: Seredipi-typos.
Barb: Tee hee.
Barb: Did you get into Terry Pratchett via the Good Omens book, like I did?
Park: Hm. I don’t think so. I think Nathan had Discworld books first and foremost.
Park: I don’t even think I thought very hard about who the other guy was who was writing Good Omens. Except I noticed that one of them was funnier than the other one.
Barb: Yeah, it’s a weird book, as the two men involved have very different writing styles and very different senses of humor.
Barb: It was a relief to actually read a Discworld book, so I could say, “Oh, yeah, that’s the funnier guy with the broader sense of humor and the wilder imagination.”
Park: Here’s an odd observation: a person writes a story for a reason.
Park: 6ytPratchett is more… DIRECT about his Whys. Always.
Barb: Ah….and what are his “whys,” my pet?
Park: Well it varies. But, like… Sir Terry felt no need to hide them.
Park: I’m saying I think sometimes Neil says “I think I’ll write a creepy story about a mirror” whereas Sir Terry will say “I think I’ll use fantasy to make a statement about how those with money and privilege oppress the working-class” or “I think I’ll use witches to point out how women suffer from people often not taking the concerns of young women seriously”
Park: Sir Terry doesn’t want to cover that up. He wants you to get that that’s what he’s doing. And, well… he’s also BETTER at it than some people I could mention.
Park: Sir Terry, on his best days, could write stories that BENEFITED from his weaving a message into the story. And THAT is REALLY rare.
Barb: You know, I never think about themes when I start writing a story, but when the themes happen to show up, I start writing toward the themes. For instance, in the book “Song to The Siren”, the theme is “Adults suck, especially when it comes to understanding gifted children”. Oh, and the nature of reality and what is true in a post-truth world. But I didn’t start with those themes. Starting with themes makes for a preachy book.
Park: Ah, well, I can’t claim to know WHEN in the process of writing a given story Sir Terry started weaving the Message in. But once he started it, he “went hard,” as the youths say on social media.
Barb: When I was in middle school, my English teacher said that all stories are psychological journeys: a character starts in one psychological place and ends up in another. And I have always tried to do that in my writing. BUT, my teacher was a little wrong. There are so stories where the character doesn’t change that much. Arthur Dent doesn’t change until several books into the Hitchhiker books. Until he meets Fenchurch, he’s just a British guy in space searching in vain for a decent cup of tea.
Barb: John Carter adjusts to Mars and falls in love, but he doesn’t exactly CHANGE psychologically.
Barb: Indiana Jones doesn’t change at all in the second “Indiana Jones” film.
Park: Ah HA! An interesting point. A character doesn’t change– doesn’t progress on their journey– AT ALL TIMES. Sometimes, they have to deal with what’s around them before they can process or change, before they have a chance to make a decision in a way that they might not have formerly decided.
Park: Incidentally, I recently speed-read a post all about how Joseph Campbell just kinda pulled “The Hero’s Journey” out of his butt… but he cut some sort of deal to get Luke Skywalker on the covers of like his reprints or something, and because of the year, everyone started paying attention and just presuming that this guy really knew what he was talking about
I can find it if you want. They kinda take Campbell apart. They sure try, anyway
Barb: Oh, I saw the Campbell interviews on “Bill Moyers” when I was a kid. I was glued to PBS as soon as I discovered it.
Park: Well see part of the problem is that they try a little too hard– they ruin their could-have-been-objective stance. There’s SOMETHING to be said about patterns of stories, old and/or new. If one has a problem with how Campbell says it, that’s one thing. But one also shouldn’t say there’s NO value in analyzing such patterns.
Barb: I lost interest in Campbell after that “Iron John” stuff.
Park: (Principal Skinner voice): GOOD LORD, was he involved in that?!? (Looks down at desk, sighs in Skinnerese)
Barb: Yeah, I took a gender studies class in Grad School and the male teacher was very Men’s Lib and Iron John stuff. I mean, I get it. Gender roles are changing, but man, I wasn’t into the idea that men need “Iron John” style fairy tales to tell them what being a man means.
Barb: To me, being a man is a set of responsibilities, to one’s family of origin, one’s household, one’s friends, one’s co-workers, one’s job, one’s community, one’s partner, etc. You know, like you and your dad are.
Barb: But those who care most about “being a man” see it as a set of privileges. “I have a penis. Give me everything!” Sigh.
Barb: You’re the one who pointed out to me the line in “Say Anything” where Lloyd’s friend said something like, “Don’t be a guy. Be a man.”
Park: That’s part of why people like that are only comfortable with rigid boundaries on concepts.
Barb: True that!
Park: Everything is Identity and Coping.
Barb: As you often say, my love.